As Alabama metalcore warriors Gideon celebrated their new album, MORE POWER. MORE PAIN. on the road, drummer Jake Smelley sat down to talk to us about the reality — both the anguish and the freedom — behind their latest release.
The last few years of Gideon have shown their grit and strength as a band. Through a shift in their identity in the music industry, through loss, and through the pandemic, the quartet has come through the pain with more power than ever. Their lifelong fans continue to root for the genuine people they’ve always seen, while others aren’t sure what to make of their new music. Through it all, Gideon does what they do best — they forge ahead and continue to win new fans with their raw and unshakable presence.
If MORE POWER. MORE PAIN. is any indication of the band’s future, it’s safe to say there’s nothing Gideon can’t endure. The new album is an astounding memorial to those they’ve loved and lost, a powerful monument to who they are as humans and as artists, and a strong testament to what honest music looks like.
So the bill for your tour is absolutely stacked. I also saw that most of the dates are sold out. How’s it going so far?
It’s unreal, man. We couldn’t have hoped for anything better honestly. We didn’t really know what to expect because it’s been a while since we’ve headlined, but it’s been a dream, dude. We love all these bands. I feel like every band on this bill we WANTED to be on tour with, so it worked out really sick.
That’s awesome, man. You guys played Chain Reaction yesterday, right?
We did! It was awesome. That’s one of those venues that, when I was in high school, just dreaming of being in a band, I would look up YouTube videos all the time of my favorite bands playing there. It never loses that shine. It’s one of those places that feels kind of surreal being there. So, it was incredible! It was a great night, we got to see a lot of our great friends that we haven’t seen in a while. It was a good time.
That’s so cool. So, tour’s selling out, and a new album is coming out. I had the opportunity to listen to it a few times today before this interview.
What do you think?
“We’re just try to be honest through our music, we’ve always been that way.”
Honestly, to me this record feels like the album that Gideon has been trying to make for years. To me, it sounds like it is exactly what you guys want to do, it doesn’t sound like you’re doing it for anybody else, doesn’t sound like you’re faking anything. It’s incredibly pissed off at some points, but it sounds like you guys were in it together and having fun.
(Laughs) Yeah, I love how it came together. It was actually written during COVID, so the dark and pissed-off stuff on the record is very genuine. Everybody shared this feeling of having the rug pulled out from under us, as did every musician, but when it came time to write a new record we let those emotions shine through. I love it, and I can’t wait for everybody to hear the whole thing.
We actually just got the first shipment of the new album sent to Chain Reaction yesterday, so we have them on tour with us right now. It feels so crazy to be holding this thing after waiting so long to put it out. I just can’t believe it’s finally here, and it’s finally time. But thank you for saying that, it means a lot. We just try to be honest through our music, we’ve always been that way. This one was just one of those “when it rains it pours” points in our lives, and I feel like it’s good to utilize music as a tool, as therapy to get through some of that stuff. I hope that people can listen to it and relate to it, and hopefully it can get them through some stuff, because it got us through a lot of things.
Absolutely. I know you mentioned that this record was written through COVID. That was already a dark time for everybody, but for you guys: you’d just dropped a record, you’re touring to support it, and you get pulled off the road in the middle of a tour.
So on top of a pandemic and the fear of never doing music again, you have an album out that you don’t get to tour on and promote. I completely get where the darkness is coming from, but as I said earlier, this sounds like the record Gideon has been trying to make for years. My question is: what did it cost to get here?
I mean, it’s in the title of the album (laughs). That really is the truth, and it’s been shown to us several times. Hard work is a constant thing that will always be there, but whenever you have to push through a hard time, it’s different. You really have to find what drives you. What am I doing this for? What keeps me going? For us, this music thing is really life or death. We live and breathe it and it’s everything to us. So to have it stripped away in a time where we were able to break down a lot of barriers, where we finally felt like we were able to be ourselves and do what we wanted to do, it felt like right when the sun started to shine here comes another cloud.
We got sent home like 7 days into that tour in 2020 with the biggest tours of our careers scheduled after that. I kind of blocked out a lot of what was going on in that time, but the songs on this record touch on a lot of the emotions that were going on in that time. Actually, when I got to the studio, my first day there, I found out that one of my close friends that I had just hung out with a week before getting to the studio had passed away.
So that’s another thing. It wasn’t just the pandemic, you know what I mean? There was a lot of stuff going on during that time. I think pain brings out honesty in people. A lot of people are really good at putting on a front and smiling through everything, but I think there was so much going on that we felt like we just had to embrace this as it comes and we have to just write about it. I think that more pain brought us to this point, to answer your question. I think that the title actually says a lot, and that’s really cool, too. When a name kind of creates itself. It answers a lot of questions right in the title and I love that about this record.
I like what you were saying about making people honest, and in a way it kind of brings everybody down to the same level. Those few years were a shared human experience unlike anything any of us had ever experienced before.
Right.
I’m incredibly sorry to hear about your friend passing away.
Thank you.
I was reading your press release before this interview, and that event is what inspired “I Will Carry You” right?
Yessir.
“I think it’s one of those unspoken things. We knew we had each other, and we have our music, and we’re here to lean on each other through the hard times…I want [listeners] to know that, even if they don’t have anybody else, there’s this group of boys from the South that has their back. I think it’s important to feel what you need to feel when you need to feel it. To be yourself, entirely.”
When you guys were dropping singles, “More Power. More Pain.,” “Take Off,” “Too Much is Never Enough,” I thought I had this record figured out, in a way. I thought, “These guys are having a good time, trying to piss people off,” and then I listened to the whole album and I was SO wrong, but I was glad I was wrong.
Songs like “If You Love Me, Let Me Go,” and “ I Will Carry You,” still make sense within the scope of the whole record because they are dealing with pain, loss, and anger, whether that be directed outward to others or inward toward yourself. But I love that you aren’t dwelling in the pain or dwelling in the anger. That’s something that’s pretty hard to do when you’re in the middle of losing loved ones, a pandemic, and not being sure if you’re going to be able to do music again. Was this a conscious decision to do, or did it just naturally happen this way?
We’re a pretty tight-knit team. We’ve spent a lot of time together over the years, and I think it’s one of those unspoken things. We knew we had each other, and we have our music, and we’re here to lean on each other through the hard times. While writing “I Will Carry You,” it was very difficult, but I had my guys here with me the whole time. I knew that whenever I had a breakdown moment, I had one if not all of them to lean on. I mean, I’d break down and cry while writing the song. And it’s still one of those songs for me.
We had a VIP group come through the other day, and we played them some new songs and this was one of them, and I just lost it. It’s just one of those things, but I always have my friends there. We go through everything together, and that’s comforting. But I want people that don’t have a band that they travel with all the time and consider their family to feel like we’re their family in a way. Like you mention, it touches on loss and anger, and I want people to listen to this record and I want them to feel everything that they need to feel. And I want them to know that, even if they don’t have anybody else, there’s this group of boys from the South that has their back. I think it’s important to feel what you need to feel when you need to feel it. To be yourself, entirely.
I think that’s all that anybody can hope for anybody else as a human being. I think it’s important to feel your feelings, and not go through this world muted, or burying stuff deep down. Deal with what you need to deal with, but also know that I’m here for you. And I think this sentiment shines through on the record. It’s very honest, even more than the last record, which was very honest.
(Laughs)
We could tell exactly where you were coming from at that time, and I was here for it! This record feels like it’s authentically you, and I have been a fan since the Facedown Records days.
Oh wow! Thank you, that means the world. It’s been a long time coming (laughs). We were lucky to start doing this when we were very very young. When we signed to Facedown, it was either the year or the year after I graduated from high school. So, I mean, we’ve been in this for our entire adult lives. Hearing you say that means a lot because….just, thank you for experiencing all of the different chapters of our life as a band and for being there through it all with us.
When we started this thing, we were always the youngest band on any tour we ever went on, and now we’re adults. We’re still trying to find ways to be honest, and it can be tough at times. People always have something to say about a band’s release, and the lyrics and everything, so it’s like you put your whole life out there in front of the world and they tell you whether it’s good or not.
It’s a very challenging way to get through life. I think that’s why focusing on mental health as an adult in music is a very important thing to me now. There are a lot of musicians traveling year after year- they do bury a lot of things and they just swallow it down and you know, they’ll deal with it later. But I think it’s important, even though you may have in the back of your head, “Will the fans like this? Will this help our band progress?”
At the end of the day, you have to set those feelings aside almost, and rely on what you’re feeling and pure honesty because I feel like our main job as musicians is to make people feel something. When you are feeling something yourself, why not use your anxiety, depression, all the things that may be taking you down, use them as a tool.
It can be cathartic for someone else. Someone else who may be experiencing that or going through that. Someone you don’t even know — probably will never know, just a fan of your band — you being honest in that moment when you’re writing or recording can benefit someone for years to come.
That’s all we can hope for doing this.
You were saying you were the youngest band, you’ve grown up on the road, and kind of grown up in the public in a way, by putting your life out in your music. In doing that, you’re going to experience some growing pains as well and the growing pains are going to be public.
Right, its all out there in the open. That part has been tricky to navigate, but honestly the amount of people that have come up to us at shows, whether in VIP or at the merch table or us just walking through the room, somebody stops us and tells us, “Hey, I know you guys used to be a Christian band, but I’ve gone through the same thing in my life…And I want you to know that every chapter Gideon has gone through as a band, I have gone through as a human.” And whenever you get that connection, it’s so hard to put into words how much that means to me as a person because that is a true connection.
When just being honest through your music throughout the years — you know, ten plus years — whenever people can listen to your discography and say, “Oh, during this chapter of Gideon, I was at that same point in my life, and now listening to new Gideon, I’m right there with them.” And that kind of connection is really hard to find, but for some reason, we’ve had a lot of fans come up and address that with us and it’s been very nice and very good conversations at a lot of these shows. It has felt like family. This whole headlining tour… It has felt like one big celebration. It’s been awesome.
“Sometimes I have to pinch myself because I can’t believe everything happening right now… It really is a dream come true.”
I can relate to that 100%. I think it’s anyone who grows up in a faith-based or religious household or is playing Christian music because that was what they were brought up to be. At some point, when you’re an adult and you start thinking for yourself, formulating your own ideas, a lot of times you’re ostracized for it.
I think it’s very beneficial to have a group of guys, such as yourselves, who have gone through this very publicly, but have come out of it on the other side and are forming this growing fan base, selling out tours, being authentically yourselves… I think it’s very beneficial for people who have grown up in similar situations to see something like this.
It’s crazy hearing you say that. Sometimes I have to pinch myself because I can’t believe everything happening right now… It really is a dream come true.
Like I said, I’ve been a fan since the Facedown days, I could not be more excited for the future of Gideon. The only thing that I wish is that I could go to your Nashville date of this tour so that I could see you guys and Orthodox on their home turf.
It’s going to be crazy. Are you in Nashville?
No, I used to live in Memphis and would drive to Nashville all the time. I’ve seen Orthodox there several times. They own that city.
Yes, they’re sick. We love the Orthodox boys.
I am so excited for you guys to play The End. That’s sold out, too, isn’t it?
Yeah, that one sold out super quick. It was supposed to be at the venue across the street. That venue changed owners, so for a while we didn’t even announce where the Nashville show was going to be held. They landed on The End and we said, “Okay, that’s going to be a tight show, but let’s do it.” And I believe it was the first show that sold out — it was like a month in advance. I cannot wait.
I feel like The End is one of those venues that has kind of helped cultivate a scene, kind of like The Church in Philly or Chain Reaction. Whenever a band sells out that venue, it bodes well for that band.
Well, I will hang on those words.
If you take anything away from this interview, let it be that.
Yessir. I am excited.
So, we still need to talk about one thing.
What’s that?
So, on this new record, there is probably, in my opinion, the best use of a sample…ever. And it’s that interview coursing through the record. I saw on your press release, you didn’t want to name who they’re interviewing, so we don’t have to right now…
As soon as I heard the voice — and hopefully anyone else who listens to music will know — as soon as I heard the voice, heard the interview, I loved that that was an addition. So my question about that is, what drew you to that? The parallels are obvious, but what made you decide to include that coursing through the entire record?
We are honestly pretty big fans of this person and like you said, there is an obvious parallel between how this person grew up doing music and then at some point had to become their own self and their own artist and embrace this wild streak that they were going through and ended up becoming one of, if not the outlaw country artist of all time… It really resonated with us. We were at the studio and it kind of just started with, “Oh it would be really cool to use a sample and we looked up on Youtube while in the kitchen at the studio and we found this interview and it was like, everything he was saying was just like, “Oh we can relate in this way.”
It’s the story of Gideon.
It really is. That’s how we felt. I was going to see this person live and a friend of mine works for this person and I thought I was going to get to actually ask him in person if we could use that actual interview and then this person had a death in their family and couldn’t make it out whenever I came to the show, so the thought kind of crossed my mind, “You know, I might just wander backstage and just be that guy…” but I was just too nervous, man, to be honest with you.
“You have this group of people who were expected to act and look and sing a certain way and they stood up for themselves and were like, ‘No we’re going to write music our way and do it our way… This is our art and our lives, at the end of the day, and we’re going to do things how we want to do it.’ I just really love that.”
I would be as well.
So we ended up just remaking it, but I think with the changes that have happened in my life, I really just gravitate toward it — I’m not really sure when outlaw country was becoming a thing, but I love to listen to all the old storytelling. It’s very similar. You have this group of people who were expected to act and look and sing a certain way and they stood up for themselves and were like, “No we’re going to write music our way and do it our way… This is our art and our lives, at the end of the day, and we’re going to do things how we want to do it.” I just really love that. Especially with where our band has come from and where it’s going.
You know, I know we’re a metal band, but god I feel like we’re like an outlaw country band in a way. So, it’s been really cool and I hope that that feeling grows and continues to help us through our journey with what comes next when writing music. I think that it’s something we really connect with. Honestly, there is like a new… I’m not sure if you’re into Americana and what those guys are doing, like Sturgill Simpson and Colter Wall and Tyler Childers, all those guys…
Very much so.
Okay, so I have a buddy actually in that world who is an artist and he would play these shows and say, “You would never guess how many heavy metal, metalcore, and hardcore fans are also fans of this genre. This Americana, outlaw country kind of genre…” So I just think that is super cool, too. There have been a few people come to VIPs on this tour and say, “This is the first heavy show we’ve ever been to, we listen to country…”
That is a hell of a first heavy show to come to.
Yeah, but they see how we carry ourselves, how we dress, you know, and they feel like they can relate to and so it kind of cracks the door open and they come to these shows and they experience what we experienced at a young age that got us so hooked on heavy music.
“We just got to a point in our career where we felt like all of our inspirations need to come out. Whether it be through fashion or music. Who we are needs to come out in every way possible.”
That’s so cool, “Oh, country music, this thing that I kind of kept hidden from a lot of my friends that I toured with throughout the years.” I was always the guy that knew all these country songs, but if they came on the radio, I would sing them in front of them, but I wasn’t going to go up to all these people on tour, from New York and California, and say, “Hey do you listen to Alan Jackson? Do you listen to Waylen Jennings?”
We just got to a point in our career where we felt like all of our inspirations need to come out. Whether it be through fashion or music. Who we are needs to come out in every way possible. It’s really cool to see how just by doing that it has happened the door for a lot of people to experience heavy music for the first time and I really love that.
I think there is a difference from what most people consider “country” which is whatever is on the radio now: Florida Georgia Line, etc., all the “bro-hop.” There’s that, but then there’s all the Americana.
I love Chris Stapleton, I would even lump him in as well and I think there are so many similarities to punk rock in that world where they are just doing whatever they want. There is an authenticity, and I think that people can smell when something is fake, you know?
Sure, sure.
There is an authenticity in that world and it’s really refreshing to see that authenticity in the hardcore and metal world. I think you guys are helping to bring that where you all are unashamedly just being yourselves no matter what it costs… I’m very appreciative of that for sure.
Well, we can’t take credit for that because if it wasn’t for the artists before us, that stood up and decided to be themselves unapologetically, we would have a hard time doing it. It’s nice to come from such a long line of musicians who have paved the way for us to be ourselves, so I don’t want to take any credit there, I just want to say, “Thank you” to all the artists before us.
You’re going to have the whole crowd rocking cowboy hats and boots.
That is the plan. We want to look out one day and see a sea of cowboy hats.
People crowd-killing in boots with spurs, good lord.
We want to look out and it look like you’re at Rock the South, but it’s a metal show. We’ll see. It makes for a fun environment for us. I know there are some people who come to these shows and hear our pre-set playlist and they’re like, “Why is this venue playing Country so loud?” but it puts us in our element. I’m up there setting up drums and John Michael Montgomery is playing in the background… It really does put me in a different mindset when we’re all getting up there to perform. We feel like it’s a good time already, so it’s really easy to get up there and have fun at that point.
You know, some people just need to get over themselves and learn to have a good time. It might not be your thing, but come on, just enjoy it.
We had this guy last year while we were on the Wage War tour who messaged us and said, “I can’t believe they were playing Country music at the show tonight. If I’d known there was Country played, I wouldn’t have bought a ticket.” It was paragraphs of how much this guy hated Country music which we though was hilarious. We had a time laughing about it, but you know there are some people who won’t like you when you’re being yourself and it’s good to learn how to laugh through those situations.
For every person who says they don’t like you, there is an entire sold-out Chain Reaction that’s there to see you, where you’re at right now in your life and career.
That’s true. Thank you for saying that.
Just play the country music louder. I don’t want to take up too much more of your time, I think this is a good place to leave it. Anything else you’d like to say? I know there’s a new album, but any other stuff in the works?
We’ve got more tours in the works and some bigger festivals that we’ve never been added to before that we’re playing this year. A lot of those haven’t been announced. We’ve got a lot of big exciting things that we couldn’t be happier about. Everybody will know about those things soon. We’ve got hopefully more music videos coming, but other than that we’re just finishing this tour up — we’ve got a week left — We’re in California now, we’re going through Arizona, Texas, and heading out to Alabama and Tennessee to finish it out and then we’re home, baby.
