As I Lay Dying, Norma Jean
[Ben Bishop, of Los Angeles, recently interviewed both Norma Jean's drummer, Daniel Davison; and As I Lay Dying's lead singer, Tim Lambesis. Here is that interview.]
“We love you guys. Jesus loves you too, if you can dig it.”
It is a hot July night and I am standing in the Rodeo Room, a tiny bar built on to the back of a bowling alley in windswept Soledad, California. A group of five young men playing under the moniker Norma Jean have just flailed, rolled, catapulted, sweated and screamed their way through one of the most energetic forty minute sets of hardcore my skinny (behind) has ever been fortunate enough to survive. At one point I literally came within two inches of catching a guitar’s headstock in my teeth. And now, before closing with another barn burner, their lead singer has just dropped the J-word on a room full of hipsters with folded arms, dyed black hair and t-shirts bearing phrases like “No God, Know Peace.”
**************
When I saw Norma Jean that summer they were in the middle of a nationwide tour opening up for popular hardcore acts Bleeding Through and Every Time I Die, the latter of which often intersperse audio clips throughout their live set including the sounds of people having sex along with various and sundry threats from movies or answering machines along the lines of, ‘If Donnie ever shows his face in here again, I’m gonna f(bleep) kill him and then cave his head in.”
It is into the company of such openly secular bands that Norma Jean and a handful of other contemporary hardcore acts with members who are open about their claims to follow Jesus Christ have stepped. They are active participants in a culture that for all its catharsis and claims to unity is rife with violence, posturing, and “artists” who are talent-less farces.
There has always been Christian Rock; rarely has it been viewed as cutting edge or even as being of comparable artistic value when measured against other music of the day. In striking contrast, groups like Norma Jean, Zao, Underoath, and As I Lay Dying have garnered what some might consider a surprisingly large following of fans who are admittedly and at times even vociferously non- or anti-religious. This is in addition to the churched / evangelical following to be expected of groups with an ideological slant such as theirs.
What is that ideological slant? This is the real question anyone attempting to separate the sincere from the ambivalently spiritual must ask. And so ask I did, in two separate interviews with As I Lay Dying vocalist Tim Lambesis and Norma Jean drummer Daniel Davison. Both men were open, polite, and in Davison’s case quite verbose.
When I finally got ahold of Lambesis he was in a van somewhere near Camp Pendleton. On stage he towers above the crowd and his bandmates, incinerating audiences with one of the most visceral vocal deliveries in hardcore. On the phone he was deferential and careful with his words. Right off the bat he explained to me that, “All of us in the band are Christians.”
Davison, from Georgia along with the rest of Norma Jean, echoed his west coast counterpart stating that, “We’re all definitely Christians. That’s pretty much the reason we play music.” He further explained his group’s motivation, stating, “We love music for its own sake; playing it, writing it. None of us were even Christians when we started the band, but soon after that we became Christians and decided to get serious about our music and bring glory to God because we felt like that was what He had given us.”
Davison is both an interviewer’s dream and one of the most laid back people I have ever spoken with. He casually expounded each of his thoughts with anecdotes and personal conjecture, all in an accent best described as a combination of San Diego surfer drawl and Southern twang.
Neither Lambesis nor Davison went into incredible theological detail about their beliefs beyond implying the basic fact that the biblical teachings and person of Jesus Christ forms their core. As Josh Scogin, Norma Jean’s former lead singer, shamelessly stated that sweaty summer evening, it’s all about how “Jesus loves you.” This is what comprises their Christianity. The fact that they didn’t deign to describe their views on gay marriage, baptism, or the imminent coming of the anti-Christ in the form of either John Kerry or George Bush was refreshing in contrast with what many, some evangelicals included, consider to be the overly zealous onstage and mid-interview preaching of certain artists or athletes.
The story of Davison and his bandmates’ conversion experience is remarkable. He spoke of attending a church service with his sister on a whim and upon hearing the speaker’s message being compelled to begin a new life following Christ. “I don’t even remember what the dude specifically talked about. At the end of the service though, I knew that I needed to become a Christian. I felt God.” So Davison and Norma Jean guitarist Scottie Henry “became Christians.” The story then takes a turn for either the comically unbelievable or the divinely guided depending on your perspective. Dan and Scottie shared their experience with the other members of the band who, the following week, also decided to follow Christ.
Some undoubtedly find Davison and his band’s fantastic story hard to swallow, chalking it up to religious excitement, a purely emotional experience consisting of a temporary spiritual high. Davison himself sees the nearly simultaneous conversion of four men in the same band as being, “insane and really weird.” It’s hard to refute their sincerity though. Seven years and two three albums later the band is still professing their belief.
“I’ve just been growing ever since that point,” says Davison. “I still go to that same church. I just started reading the Bible on my own. I think that’s a big part of why I’m still going strong; it wasn’t forced upon me, and I wasn’t taught it. I had to figure it out for myself, and it’s just between me and God.”
While unashamed of their beliefs, both men were clear that the focus of their bands includes making the best music they can. Actions have always spoken louder than words, and it is the actions of these groups that are most telling.
Some of the most focal issues any artist faces are where and with whom they will in fact “do” their art. For many bands composed of Christians, even hardcore bands, the choice has been clear; sign to a Christian label, tour mostly churches, and have your records sold in Christian bookstores, all of which provide a ready-made audience all too eager to gobble up anything with the right label or an endorsement from their youth pastor.
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Comments
I'm not a real big Norma Jean fan, but I respect all that they've done and gone through.
The new album is fantastic as well.
and for As I Lay Dying, I lov em!
I was just wondering HM what was the point of allowing the author to have cusswords in this interview? This website should be a safehaven from that type of language. Thank you and God bless.
The review was great but i didn't like all the cursing in it the thing is i Never thought that HM wolud even curse so please dont curse again.
This is a question froma hardcore fan of HM mag
i am sure none of you have ever heard "swear words" before.
and i am sure that's why this interveiw is only online.
sorry that was a little out of line.
Good article Ben...well written, interesting and fun to read. Thanks for bringing it to the table.
Your buddy,
Kel
yeah where'd this ben guy come from? what writing ability! nice to see HM utilizing someone w/ so much talent. forget about the ONE cussword, an article of this quality is rarely seen and i enjoyed every bit of it. the staff have said before they aren't into censorship, so leave 'em be.
Just because that langauge and the graphic events were did and said DOS'NT MEAN WE NEED TO SEE THEM! I think that you definitly should have not printed those words on this christian website! How do you think unbelievers look at christians when they see the bad words like that on a CHRISTIAN WEBSITE. I for one was verry offended by it! Please do not do it again!
Hey fellow christians, lets not bash for the one cuss word. Please HM watch your witness, and as for AILD and Norma Jean keep rockin for Jesus. Also that comment by Josh is so awesome, the chariot came to omaha and yeah the chariot shared christ on stage after HOpesfall who guess what "cusses" so brignign the word to a perverse generation is hard so if this person whp wrote thsi cussed thats not the point the point is "Jesus loves you" and hm watch you language
awesome article. not a big fan of the cuss words, but brilliant writing. Norma Jean, AILD keep up the good work.
Jesus loves you
jesus loves you. even if you say ass. ass.
P.S. Amen Lauren.
I love the article and I love normma jean, at times i don't understand the lyrical meanings of the new album, but still it makes me think. Im not too in to As I lay... And for the cussing, I dont get it lol
Hey i loved the article man.Big fan of NJ and AILD and looking forward to AILD's new release this summer.It's great to see people in metal rocking for Christ.And for the cuss word, it happens and if anyone on here says they've never cussed...i dunno about that. lol...Zach and God Bless
Hey i loved the article man.Big fan of NJ and AILD and looking forward to AILD's new release this summer.It's great to see people in metal rocking for Christ.And for the cuss word, it happens and if anyone on here says they've never cussed...i dunno about that. lol...God Bless...Zach
ooh sry about posting that twice guys. STOP doesn't work fast enough lol
Awesome article! Awesome writer too. For those critical of the language, chill out. geesh. Good work HM, awesome bands. Keep up the great work!
I'm sorry about the cusswords. I honestly didn't see them (nor did I read the well-written article very well before I posted it). It is my longtime decision to (bleep) out cusswords in our content. Those two particular words in this case made it past me without notice. If I had taken more care in editing, this wouldn't have been an issue at all.
OMGOSH CUSSING[/sarcasm]
Great review. :)
<><
even if you think cussing is ok, please realize that keeping things clean will only provide for a more positive expression and response
dude! are u THE billy ray cyrus?! OMG!
yeah neway, i don't think cussing is alright, but everyone knows it was an accident...so there was no reason for so many overreactions.
great article. i think that it's great that bands like norma jean, as i lay dying and underoath are getting huge. i saw underoath and the chariot in DC a couple weeks ago, and both shared that they were christians in front of a gigantic crowd at the 9:30 club. i have so much respect for bands that aren't afraid to say that their christians.
This article was cool. It really showed me how much these bands are really trying to live for Christ. Cussing isn't the worst thing in the world and i know for a fact all of you slip one out every once in a while! (James 1:26) (Ephesians 4:17-19) Don't sweat it! Amazing article!
norma jean is an amazing band. without good solid Christian hardcore, i probley wouldnt be he man i am today. Every time i go to a Christian hardore show, i get so fired up for God, and i say, see you ca still be wild and love God. People, all God cares about is how you live for Him. he doesnt care bout they way you look, or how heavy or quiet your music is. keep rockin guys, and God bless
I just want so say that both Norma Jean and As I Lay Dying are some of the best christian hardcore bands out there
23 days everybody till the new AILD album!
u people r a so self righteous it is ridiculous i've never seen so much complaining about a "curse" word i dont even remeber reading. Great article by the way
And what are you for pointing out peoples flaws, Kevin.
thanx for having articles online at all, doug. that way i can get my fix while im in Germany.
This may be old news now, but I just wanted to say WHAT is all the stuff with the comments (and reaction to said comments) about the 'bad language' about? Unbelievably silly American pedantism from the fundamentalist Midwest, I shouldn't wonder. It was 'bleeped' out. Lets forget about it and move on now, people. No one is blameless (and no doubt people will rip into me for writing this). Oh, and by the way, learn to construct a sentance in English before you try to debate, otherwise your point will be 'lost in translation'!
By the way, I was employing irony in that last comment. Look hard enough and you'll understand. God bless all.
I just realized someone here has hacked my identity. that really does give me an achy breaky heart. Some gave all and some poseurs didn't. Some played Doc and some didn't. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I liked them boys in both these bands when I saw their show. It sure is refreshing to hear the boys startin to write some singles now. Good for them and all of us. Soon they will be taking over them worthless "x" stations on the radio.
...i wish i could right that good!
I think this was a great article. I loved it. Personaly AILD is my fav. band and NJ is right behind them so it was great. I love what HM does because they let you read about bands that are actually doing something to help out, rather than tear down and depress people. Keep it up and Keep It Heavy!!!
Shit, fuck, ass, cunt, gay, bitch....
c'mon please are you going to get all melodramatic about the whole issue, who cares!
Been realistic here, whoever gets really offended by a "curse" word (oh oh he said the "f" word..) shows nothing but a simple and very narrow view (on a such worthless issue).
Anyway, i like as i lay dying, and norma jean are alright, i quite liked the article. I am not christian...I am non-practicing catholic, if anyone is interested (anyone up for slagging me off?), but more importantly I am myself and even if my beliefs in god are part of my life, I don't let religion influence my way of thinking, my views or my entire life. I liked the article because none of the two bands are ashamed or try to hide their christianity from other people, or try to influence other people through their music. A good example is the bands with whom AILD toured (eg. Behemoth), many of them were bands that didn't support their views on religion or even had strong views against it, but that did not mattered to them as they left all these differences aside and just good times together.
Definately, it is good to hear how these bands can still keep their own religious beliefs in a genre where been atheist or just hating religion in general is commonly "in fashion".
